Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

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crashtech
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Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:54 pm

Hey guys,
I have an ASUS Z10PC-D8 that I've tried to upgrade from Xeon E5-2678v3 to E5-2690v4, with limited success. Here's a list of the steps I took and what happened.

Start with running system with 2x 2678v3 installed. All 8 RAM slots populated, 64GB. Both EPS 8-pin connecters used. 800W Corsair PSU.
Update BIOS from 0303 to 3104. Reboot into OS to confirm all is well.
Remove power cable and CMOS battery.
Remove 2678v3's, insert 2690v4's. (usually would start with one, I was hoping to finish fast)
Insert new CMOS battery and apply power.
Boot failure. Standby lights only, no ERR CPU or CATTERR LEDs. No fans.
Remove CPU 2 and its RAM, mark CPU with "?"
Boot success! Normal OS boot and operation.
Remove CPU1 and insert CPU marked "?" Boot success!
Place former now known good CPU1 into CPU2 socket along with its RAM. Boot failure.
Replace both CPUs with former 2678v3's. Boot success, normal operation.


Not sure what to do next. It will only run with one, as if they were uniprocessor CPUs.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by StefanR5R » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:16 pm

I suppose you have checked the reported model number when you booted with only one socket populated, to verify that these are genuine. Are they production samples, or ES?

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by OrangeKid » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:19 pm

Looks like there are newer BIOS also. Didn't read the changes though.

https://www.asus.com/us/Commercial-Serv ... Desk_BIOS/

or this one?

https://www.asus.com/Networking-IoT-Ser ... Desk_BIOS/

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:20 pm

They aren't ES, and the BIOS correctly reported the CPU type.

I didn't want to jump to the very latest BIOS, but the one I used is listed as supporting the 2690v4. I figured that an older BIOS had less chance of having performance robbing exploit mitigations.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:24 pm

Have you tried it with just one stick of RAM per CPU?

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:27 pm

I haven't. It didn't occur to me that RAM might be a problem, since it runs with either CPU in one socket fully populated with RAM. It's a head scratcher for me.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:41 pm

crashtech wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:27 pm
I haven't. It didn't occur to me that RAM might be a problem, since it runs with either CPU in one socket fully populated with RAM. It's a head scratcher for me.
I agree with your train of thought, and it's probably not going to be RAM related, but that is generally my first step in troubleshooting a machine that doesn't POST. Hopefully somebody else will chime in with better info, my experience with dual socket machines is probably less than others here, but that is what I would try since it's at least it is a step to narrow things down a bit. I wasn't thinking it's bad ram so much as much as maybe a specific incompatibility with the new CPU's, that specific RAM, that motherboard, etc.. I would be curious too if with just the one CPU if it shows all of the RAM for that CPU and shows it in quad channel. Is there any chance with 1 CPU it wasn't detecting all the sticks of RAM? i could see that causing weird issues once the second CPU is added into the mix if so.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by StefanR5R » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:57 am

Maybe the BIOS version does not bring up the QPI links correctly.
Or maybe one of the CPUs has a damaged QPI link.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:24 am

Thanks all for having a stab at the problem. I'm going to keep thinking about it for a while.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:48 pm

Is there any way to diagnose a bad QPI link?

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by StefanR5R » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:38 pm

I don't know. Intel certainly test it when they manufacture these.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:44 pm

Probably the only way would be to get one more of the same model CPU and then try it with each one you already have to see if one doesn't work. That would really be a bummer then though if you still have issues with all 3.

If you decide to use them a single socket processors instead of in a dual processor setup, I've actually had fairly okay luck with the shipped from China X99 boards that are all over eBay. I mean, they're not great, the bios is super limited, etc. but I've been running 2 of them for awhile(and paid like $75 each at the time) and haven't had any major issues. The one I need to look at more now that competitions are over for the time being since I couldn't get the RAM to run in quad channel but it was more likely the RAM I was using. I had paired them with a $75ish 12 core/24 thread Xeon and it makes a pretty inexpensive machine with a fair amount of threads. Your E5-2690v4's would be a lot faster than the processors I used though.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:49 pm

I'm a bit stuck atm. I don't think it would be reasonable to return them because I can't determine where the fault lies. I can't resell them for the same reason. I don't want to keep spending money on this platform! This was supposed to be one last thing to extend the life of my last two Xeon systems. I do have another board I can try these in, but that one has a bad memory channel... :(

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:06 pm

crashtech wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:49 pm
I'm a bit stuck atm. I don't think it would be reasonable to return them because I can't determine where the fault lies. I can't resell them for the same reason. I don't want to keep spending money on this platform! This was supposed to be one last thing to extend the life of my last two Xeon systems. I do have another board I can try these in, but that one has a bad memory channel... :(
If it were me I would try them in the other board and if it doesn't work try to return them or exchange them for the same model if the seller has more. It seems reasonable to expect them to work as dual processor, but I couldn't necessarily fault the seller for not noticing that if they just threw it in a single socket machine to test it, or it was a working pull from a single socket machine. If it's a good seller, they'll make it right regardless.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:08 pm

Yeah, I might head over there today and bring it all home to check out at leisure. Maybe I'll notice something different the second time around.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:12 pm

crashtech wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:08 pm
Yeah, I might head over there today and bring it all home to check out at leisure. Maybe I'll notice something different the second time around.
This is the longest of long shots, but I would also visually inspect the pins in the socket with a magnifying glass if you have one. If the pins handling the QPI links aren't making a good connection that would cause this issue too. I didn't suggest it earlier because it works with your other processors, but it could be such a small variance in how the one sits in there vs the new ones that it could make a difference. Likewise I would make sure there isn't a tiny glob of thermal paste or something on the processor where it sits in the socket.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:35 am

I did inspect the sockets again with more emphasis on CPU 1, they looked great. Updated to a newer BIOS. Nothing helped. BUT, they work in my X10DRL with the one bad channel. So they are humming away now, but with less than 1GB per thread which I don't like. I think I am probably done spending a lot more on these older platforms.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by StefanR5R » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:31 am

@crashtech, good to hear that at least the CPUs seem to be in working condition. But it's strange and a bummer that the upgrade of the Asus board didn't work.

I've got no experience with Asus server boards myself. I have a monoculture of Supermicro boards here. I did have painful experiences with Asus consumer boards, an X79 and an X99, which I bought with SNB-E and HSW-E support out of the box respectively, and wanted to use with IVB-E and BDW-E instead. But I can imagine that generational CPU support updates of server boards can be hit and miss too. On the AMD side, the Naples -> Rome update was a complete fiasco across all board vendors due to the trivial problem of too small BIOS flash chips. But the Naples platform had rougher than usual edges anyway.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by biodoc » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:37 am

Is it possible your PSU is the problem? I see you have both 8 pin connectors plugged into the MB so that's good. I see in the manual on p 2-18 that it won't post if there's not enough power. I know this is a stretch but I can't think of anything else to try.

E5-2690V4 is 135 W TDP
E5-2680V3 is 120 W TDP

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:50 am

biodoc wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:37 am
Is it possible your PSU is the problem? I see you have both 8 pin connectors plugged into the MB so that's good. I see in the manual on p 2-18 that it won't post if there's not enough power. I know this is a stretch but I can't think of anything else to try.

E5-2690V4 is 135 W TDP
E5-2680V3 is 120 W TDP
I did think of that, but even with the GPU out there wasn't even a hint of it trying to start. I'm not sure how any load sensing device could do its job just sitting there cold...?

Anyway, they are working now, just on the board I was planning to recycle this year... :lol:

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:57 am

I know you just got them running, but I'd be curious what you think of the performance once you have a good idea on it. I've been trying to make some decisions on my own Haswell Xeon stuff. I have 2 single socket machines that are 12 core / 24 thread Xeons so I thought about getting a cheap dual socket board to consolidate the 2 machines.. but then I'm like "well if I'm buying a motherboard anyways.. those broadwells that are 14 or 18 core look pretty nice.." and it all spirals out of control for me :lol: I don't need hard numbers or benchmarks, I'm just curious if you noticed much gain compared to what you had in there before.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:06 pm

I'm certain they will put out more. 4 more threads per CPU, and an additional 400MHz at full load, and a reported ~5% IPC uplift. At this point I would be comparing between two different systems, but I would be happy to do some checking, especially if you can think of something quick and dirty that I can do in Linux. In the Windows days, I would just post of some Cinebench numbers.

Also as a bonus, I dug out a Z10PC-D8 that had one bad socket, I'm going to use it as a part-time rig (we all know what happens with those ideas of moderation, haha). So, I have 1 2678v3 for super cheap to a good home. If I was to ebay it I would ask $75 shipped, maybe someone here would give me $50 or so?

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by Icecold » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:15 pm

crashtech wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:06 pm
Also as a bonus, I dug out a Z10PC-D8 that had one bad socket, I'm going to use it as a part-time rig (we all know what happens with those ideas of moderation, haha). So, I have 1 2678v3 for super cheap to a good home. If I was to ebay it I would ask $75 shipped, maybe someone here would give me $50 or so?
That would be a great deal, I'm sure somebody would take it. I just checked my eBay history and I paid $90 each for my E5-2670V3's(I previously said "$75ish", but I looked and it was $90 each). Paired with a used motherboard, or one of the new x99 motherboards from China and 4 inexpensive sticks of DDR4 and whoever buys it would have a solid machine with a good amount of threads.

I did move some RAM around and got both my X99 motherboards running at quad channel, so with the right RAM those generic X99 motherboards seem pretty solid.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by StefanR5R » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:36 pm

I don't have a comparison between Haswell-EP and Broadwell-EP, which seems to be the point here.

But there is some other data if you copy+paste Some arbitrary performance measurements into the search box at the top and hit the magnifying glass:
The 14-core E5-2690 v4 gives 0.7 of the performance of the 22-core E5-2699/2696 v4, for 0.9 times of the power.¹
The 22-core E5 v4 gives half of the performance of of the 32-core Rome, for same power.

Edit:
¹) E5-2690 was conceived as a chip for use cases in which a middle way between high performance per core and high performance per socket was desired. This results in a configuration with lower performance/Watt in comparison to the top end dual-socket SKU of the same generation, the 2699.

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:41 pm

It was anticipated that there would be an efficiency regression going to the higher clock speed. I will need to re-shuffle the positions of my computers since for a while now I have had access to a second circuit. That, or cobble together a way of supplying 220V since there is a 220V outlet near a couple of the computers. Don't they run slightly more efficiently that way?

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by 10esseetony » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:00 pm

Yes, about 2% on average. It adds up fast.

If you do not need to worry about a code inspection, or other people plugging stuff in, just hot wire a standard 15/20amp 110v outlet to the 220v, paint the cover red and print out some warning to tape onto it ( I have a label maker, and, apparently, a 'sharpie'), then use a NON-surge power strip. Again, you need to ensure you and you alone have access to this, if you go this route.

edit: several edits beyond this point.

The pic below is so my little arc welder (220v outlet) can be used with a heavy duty 110v extension cord (welder has the necessary adapter, as it is happy with 110v as well). What you see plugged in is an led bar that runs off 90-270v). But I do have similar 'temporary' plugs elsewhere for DC, they work just fine. Wire the outlet the same, white on one side, black on the other, ground to ground. The only difference is the white is no longer neutral, it is the second leg of 110v. It is VERY likely the 220v outlet is already wired with just black and white. If there is a red (4 prong outlet), then 'new' white will go to the existing red (usually). :?

Make sure your PSU does not have one of those red slider switches for voltage changes....most are now automatic. If you pop an old PSU with a voltage selector, just solder in a new fuse (internal). Don't ask how I know. :D

Image

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by crashtech » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:40 pm

My plan was to simply meld a power strip with a 220V plug, and paint danger warnings all over it. Point taken about surge protection, though. Honestly to be safe (well, less dangerous :lol: ), an integrated circuit breaker should be included that has a more appropriate amperage rating. For instance, I know the breaker for my 220V outlet is 60A. :shock:

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by 10esseetony » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:37 pm

Yes, indeed, make sure it has a breaker. Hard to find a strip these days though, that does not include a 13-15A switch/breaker. ///goes and looks at most recent $4 power strip purchase///

///Yep, says 'off' and 'reset.' ///

edit: Just fill all the empty spaces (if any) with baby-protector thingys if it is in a public area. Then zip-tie them in place. Then tape over all that. Then.....uhm, fire anyone silly enough to undo all that and plug in something they shouldn't. ;)
\
https://smile.amazon.com/Outlet-Proofin ... 228&sr=8-6

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Re: Help With Asus Z10PC-D8

Post by 10esseetony » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:49 pm

/edit/ Replugging the cable is certainly the simpler solution. /end edit/

These are nice, have a 20A pop out breaker at the switch end (and the 20A breaker works :oops: ). /edit/ Also the cable is long (15ft) and heavy duty enough to match a 50/60A add on plug. /end edit/

https://smile.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Out ... 255&sr=8-1

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